Nader Shows Up a Spoiled System, Helps McKinney
Ralph Nader entered the 2008 presidential campaign this week asking tough questions that none of the major party candidates have taken up. No wonder they denounce him as a spoiler. Nader, McKinney and the other third party candidates do spoil the insider game that seeks to limit American voters to the two choices of the two corporate parties. All voters benefit from their efforts.
Nader’s independent campaign helps all third parties and third party presidential candidates. His campaign particularly helps the Green Party and the campaign of Cynthia McKinney.
The fight to open up the US electoral system in which the Green Party is engaged benefits greatly from the presence on the ballot of as many highly qualified independent and third party candidates as possible. The more well-qualified candidates the better because they can debate each other and draw attention to each other’s campaigns in ways that would not be possible if each were the only third party candidate in the race.
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Hey Rachel. You don't know me, but I know of you, and hope the rest of the commoners do too, or will from your posts here. I know that I hear you mentioned as a party leader on the state as well as national level, and as a candidate if memory serves me well. Glad to see you posting here.
First of all, I agree that Nader has and will ask questions that none of the major party candidates have asked, but they are very few. In fact, both Kucinich and Gravel brought up many of the same points Nader has and will. In fact, pretty much every Democratic Party candidate has held and promoted at least one of Nader's points. Clinton is pro-choice. Obama wants to end the war. Edwards was for ending poverty. I am not well versed on all the candidates as it's not my party, but I imagine each of them had *something* that Nader would endorse.
Democrats don't denounce us or Nader as spoilers because of policy or philosophical issues. They denounce us because we don't knuckle under to their decisions to put corporate cash at the center of our party.
In addition, it is important to remember that we are not disgruntled Democrats. We have a fundamentally different way of seeing the world. We don't pine away for some long gone progressive era, but see much of the results of those times as being less than perfect. Establishing government controlled bureaucracies to handle consumer problems rather than establish citizen controlled systems to do so has left citizen's needs in the hands of disinterested and faceless government employees making life changing decisions without recourse. Having the Housing Authority tell you that you must move out so your building can be demolished to make way for a new Wal Mart is no less painful than if the same news comes from a landlord, but if it's a landlord, at least you know where the castle is in case you decide to swarm it!
While I am not certain that simply proclaiming that an independent Nader campaign automatically benefits the Green and/or McKinney campaign. It could do so, but I am not certain that it will.
Both Nader, who came to SC twice in 2000 and twice in 2004, and McKinney who was here just this past fall, have used their good offices and reputations to help build the Green Party. Both have an absolute right to run, and both are worthy of support.
But, unless something happens in his announcement today at noon, Nader's campaign will not be a Green Party campaign. That makes him, for me, less important. McKinney wants and is seeking our nomination. Nader apparently does not want our nomination. Fair enough. He doesn't need us to achieve his goals.
I do agree that as many qualified candidates on the ballot as possible benefits us all. This is one reason I vote third party whenever I can, even if that means voting Libertarian or Constitution Party.
I think a Third Party debate including Nader would be a good idea...but doubt Nader would participate.
My opinions. Great to see you Rachel. Hope to read more soon.
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Thanks for your comments, Gregg. I am glad Nader is running for the reasons I stated previously, but like you, my interest is in building the Green Party and supporting our Green Party candidates. That is where I am putting my efforts. But we Greens need to take advantage of the opportunities for synergy that Nader's campaign provides us.
and I agree 100% with you that we can, and should, connect with Nader in places where we are given the opportunity. I don't doubt for a moment the impact of a Nader endorsement of a Green Party member who's running for a local office. So long as all sides benefit, I think that cooperation with Nader and other independent progressive voices makes a ton of sense.
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bullshit. The only way Greens benefit from another Nader run is if we support it. No matter how you spin it, that means tossing McKinney under the bus.
I'm a huge Nader fan, thought he was brilliant on MTP the other weekend and could support him but what does that do for the Green Party?
Nothing if he's not running as a Green.
The only positive face you could put on this one is that Greens get a free .03 presidential candidate if we support Nader, toss McKinney under the bus and use our money to get local Green candidates elected.
Sorry Rachel, not buying any spin this evening. McKinney's run for the Green nomination has clearly been marginalized by Nader's Indy candidacy. The only remaining question is how individual Greens respond?
... blind if you can't see the benefits of an independent Nader run. The only time the Green Party has been mentioned on national TV in the last 8 years is if Nader said it himself or we were mentioned in a story about Nader. That will continue this campaign season. When Nader campaigned in 2004, Green Party candidates appeared along with him. He at least is willing to do that again, regardless of the limited vision of greens who only see him as competition. Of course, the benefits of Nader's indy run aren't as great as if he was our nominee.
If you're willing to admit that the benefits of Nader running as an indy aren't as great as if he were the GP nominee, you've got to give me credit for having vision in one eye ;-).
Individual Greens are responding...sadly, those who support Nader, are responding by either being for Nader outright, or supporting the idea of the Green Party "endorsing" the Nader run...
On the "other side", which I am a member, you have Greens who support building the Party, looking to our future, and actually believe in the Grassroots idea...Even if it means wishing an "icon" well in his run, and supporting the Green Party candidate.
In my run for County office this year, I want a candidate at the top of the ticket with a large G beside their name. We are trying to grow a movement in our County and State, and we can't do this if all we are doing is "endorsing" someone outside our Party...Why would anyone wish to join us? Why shouldn't they join the Party we are "endorsing", or stay with the affiliation they have, and jump on the bandwagon of the candidate we "endorse"?
Unfortunately, neither the Green Party nor Nader will win the election. My only hope is that when the votes are counted, and the dust clears, Nader supporters will return to the Green Party. We will welcome them back with open arms.
This division is causing a situation that will take years to mend. I regret that the money and time that will be wasted to get back to where we are today, could have been spent growing a new tomorrow.
I was at the Nader/Gonzalez kickoff event here in Washington DC last week and I was more impressed than I was expecting to be. I was also a lot more impressed with the way he connected with the crowd that I was expecting. My feeling 8 months out is that he will do better than expected, possibly better than 2004. When you have people like Bill O'Reilly bemusedly calling him a socialist (would that he actually were, IMHO), you know the media doesn't have a clue.
As for Cynthia McKinney/the Green Party, it does look on the surface that his campaign splits off activists, support, and votes that would otherwise go to them, but let's remember that, as we always say about the Democrats, no one is entitled to anyone's vote. You have to earn it. And remember also that there will be states where McKinney is on the ballot and Nader is not (and vice versa). In terms of this dilemma, those folks are lucky. The dilemma won't exist in those states.
I agree that the issues we all care about are helped by Nader being in the race because of the undeniable level of attention he gets focused onto them; far more than the Green Party alone could get absent an equally marquee-level candidate. And RN brings people into the election process who would never consider supporting Cynthia McKinney or the Green Party, so there's no competition in terms of those folks. I really think the GP should zero in on those minority populations that are getting excited about CM and coming out to GP events, at long last. Nader doesn't have much traction within those segments of the population and never has. Finally, Ralph said at the event that they're thinking of starting a new party, and who knows what will come of that.
I do hope this is the last time he, or anybody, runs a high profile. left wing campaign for president that is independent of a party nomination process. It would be nice for everyone in this area of the political spectrum to be on the same page, strategically speaking. But until that happens, we all have to work with what has been dealt to us, in our individual states and locals. So keep focusing on party building from the US Senate on down.
An old Army buddy out West who first got me interested in the Green Party is going to support Nader again. He's been an active Green for a long time and he thinks very much along the same lines as yourself.
Imagine that. Two vets in a combat MOS (19 Delta) going Green after a tour of duty. If you give it serious thought, it's really the only patriotic thing to do if you really care about the USA. I wish more would do the same.
Like I said above, if Greens support Nader we get a relatively free candidate who has a high profile and that ain't all bad. It would allow the party to concentrate financial resources on local elections where our chances of success are much greater. It also coincides with my belief that actually winning more elections is one the essential keys to expanding the party. Furthermore, Ralph may even exceed both of our expectations if Greens support him and get him on enough state ballots to make an impact. Of course, this requires capital.
The immediate problem is that tossing McKinney under the bus could have rather serious future ramifications for the party. It's not often that we get a 6-term congress critter who actively seeks the party's nomination. Tossing McKinney under the bus may give other similarly accomplished candidates reason to pause prior to signing on with the only real progressive party.
It may all play out for the better. Ralph is 74 now and I suspect this will be his last run. Shining a little sun on Gonzalez will be beneficial to the party as well as he's a serious candidate for any office in California.
Can Ralph get 5% of the popular vote? I think he'd get 20% easy if he had the same air time as the corporate party candidates. It's perhaps the most serious problem Greens have to address in a realistic manner. My assumption is that there has to be a sugar daddy out there someplace who would support our means and goals and would bankroll a strong Green candidate. Again, it's really the only patriotic thing to do in order to save the good old USA.